Does Your GBC Love You?

Disobedience Means that You Have No Love

“But if you don’t mind, I can say that the Christians are not obeying the orders of God. Do you agree or not?”

It was Shrila Prabhupada, and none other, who introduced bhakti-yoga to the Western world. Despite the fact that swamis (and so-called “swamis”) had been coming to America and europe for over half a century, very persons few had even heard the world bhakti before Prabhupada’s advent. Today thanks to his founding the Hare Krishna movement bhakti-yoga is a household term. 

At first, some might have objected by declaring that yoga means twisting the body this way and that. But Shrila Prabhupada would respond that bhakti, or pure devotional service to God, is the yoga of love. Hence bhakti alone is the genuine goal of yoga because without the element of loving reciprocation; all forms of yoga, tapasya, cultivation of jnana, study of shastras are absolutely useless. 

Shrila Prabhupada always made each of his disciples feel loved, even those who had never spoken with him or even may have never sat in a darshan. And his devotees were pleased to lovingly reciprocate. For the genuine servants of Shri Guru nothing else was or is more important than this loving relationship between guru and disciple. And because the disciple is kept on the path of sanatana dharma by this strong bond of love, therefore devotees lovingly carried out the perfect orders of the spiritual master.

Unfortunately, that all changed when Shrila Prabhupada departed and entered into mahasamadhi. Soon a grand tug of war ensued between those who had all along pretended to love Shrila Prabhupada (but who actually cared little for his instructions and never really loved him) and the sincere disciples. Those whose love was for their own positions, wealth and power they could have for themselves attempted to usurp the acharya’s crown. In a most egregious and offensive way they declared themselves to be “zonal acharyas,” and demanded worship in each of the temples of the spiritual master—even accepting flowers at their feet from their own Godbrothers and God–sisters. 

Since this greedy “zonal acharya-ism” had been directly mandated by a rogue GBC, and since it was in direct violation of the orders of the spiritual master, it is understood that those persons who had used the spiritual master for their own supposed glory could not really have loved him. It seems apparent that they had been kept close to the Founder-Acharya because he recognized their unbridled ambitions and he had kept them near during his manifest lila so that they could be closely watched.

Even so, in the great post-samadhi tug of war between the self-appointed acharyas on one hand and the sincere servants of Shrila Prabhupada on the other, the ambitious personalities eventually won the contest. They did this by appointing their own sycophant disciples above the heads of tried and true disciples of His Divine Grace, and chasing the real devotees out the door. ISKCON was turned into a veritable samudra-manthan, except in this particular struggle the demons won the battle and enjoyed the spoils of victory though only for a very short period. 

But with the appearance of The Journey Home we see that the tug of war is once again underway. In fact it could be argued that there has never been a more egregious example of disobedience to the will of Shrila Prabhupada than The Journey Home. It is a treatise of bluster and braggadocio with its veneration for bogus Mayavadi duplicate-gurus proving this sordid book to be the antithesis of love or bhakti.. And when the spiritual master and the Supreme Lord are unloved by a heartless GBC that promotes The Journey Home—a book that has that placed the lovely picture of Lord Krishna alongside a decadent pile of skulls—how can any member of ISKCON expect even an ounce of genuine love coming down from its GBC? 

Rather than feeling love for the Supreme Lord, the Mayavadi asura hates Him and seeks to dismember him in order to usurp His position. Love is a choice. It is a privilege to love and to serve the Supreme Lord through the grace of the loving bona fide spiritual master. Considering the karmic reactions to the zonal era which sent dozens of “pada-ified gurus” running, dying or winding up behind bars—and with ISKCON forking over millions in lawsuits—we wonder why an unloving GBC has not yet learned its lesson. Is it so difficult for them to love the spiritual master who gave his very life so that we could be saved from samsara? As Prabhupada teaches, love is demonstrated by obedience, and a lack of obedience reveals contempt. As Shrila Prabhupada states in the following discussion with a Christian monk in Germany, “If you disobey me, that love is not real love.”

“No Obedience to God—This is the Position”

Conversation with Father Emanuel Jungclaussen
at Schloss Rettershof, Germany June 22, 1974

Prabhupāda: (Krishna) is Para-brahman. Para-brahman. Brahman is realized in three angles of vision—impersonal Brahman ...

Pater Emmanuel: Internalized Brahman. Yes, I see

Prabhupāda: ...and localized Brahman, Paramātmā in the heart, and personal Brahman. Krishna is the Supreme Brahman, because ultimately God is person. Yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. The exact Sanskrit word is vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam (SB 1.2.11). The Absolute Truth is described by the person who knows the Absolute Truth in three ways—brahmeti, the impersonal Brahman; paramātmeti, the localized Paramātmā; and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate feature of God, full with all six opulences—the richest, the strongest, the most famous, the most wise, the most renounced and most beautiful. These are the six features of the Personality of Godhead.

Pater Emmanuel: That’s very good.

Prabhupāda: And His being Absolute, His name is not different from Him. The name and the form and the quality of God, they are all Absolute. Therefore chanting His name means associating with God. So when one associates with God, gradually He becomes godly. And when he is fully purified, then he become associate of God.

Pater Emmanuel: (German)

German devotee: (translating for Pater Emmanuel) But we can understand the name of God only in a negative way.

Prabhupāda: No. God has unlimited potencies, and therefore He has got unlimited names.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, but we are limited.

Prabhupāda: We are limited, but God is not limited. Unlimited. And because He is unlimited, therefore He has got unlimited names---not one or two, but unlimited names. There is a Sanskrit book, Aṣṭottara-sahasra. There are 1,008 names of God. So 1,008 is also limited, but because we are limited, the God’s names are given to us as far as we can understand. Otherwise, He has got unlimited potencies, unlimited names. And each and every name is God because He is absolute.

Pater Emmanuel: (German with devotee) Allow you a question? You know that we Christians are also preaching the love of God, and we seek to fulfill the love of God and to serve God with all our heart and soul. And what different from your movement who will the same? And why do you send your disciples in these Christian countries to preach the love of God when the gospel of Jesus Christ is also preaching the love of God, God’s love?

Prabhupāda: But if you don’t mind, I can say that the Christians are not obeying the orders of God. Do you agree or not?

Pater Emmanuel: I agree.

Prabhupāda: Then where is love? If you disobey the orders of God, then where is your love? Therefore we have come here to teach them to love God. (devotees arranging chair for a guest in the background) If you love me, you cannot disobey me. And if you disobey me, that love is not real love.

Pater Emmanuel: Will that mean that Christianity has to change their customs or the Christianity, Roman Catholic or Protestant, must return to the source?

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can sit on the chair if you like.

Guest: No, I like to sit, thank you.

“Not only Christianity, everywhere, the people now do not love God, but they love dog”

Prabhupāda: Not only Christianity, everywhere, the people now do not love God, but they love dog.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore this movement is required, awakening of God consciousness. Not the Christians they are only to be accused, but Hindus, Muslims, everyone. They are simply stamped, but no obedience to God. This is the position.

Pater Emmanuel: Can you say exactly the point where Christians are not obedient? Do you see any points here by your visit to the Christian countries and you like to say for us? It is a help for us to say exactly the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The first point is that your commandment is, “Thou shall not kill,” and you are maintaining regularly slaughterhouse. The first commandment is disobeyed. Do you agree or not?

Pater Emmanuel: Um...

Prabhupāda: Or in my front the animals are being kept for being killed.

Pater Emmanuel: I personally agree.

Prabhupāda: That’s it.

Pater Emmanuel: I personally agree.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, actually, if Christians are lover, they must stop immediately this animal killing.

Pater Emmanuel: And you think it’s a principal point, the top point.

Prabhupāda: But if you miss one point, if you commit mistake in calculation in one point, the more you make calculation, add and subtract, it is all mistake. Just like in the bank they daily make a trial balance, and if there is one mistake anywhere, the trial balance does not come.

Pater Emmanuel: I understand.

Prabhupāda: This is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi 5.176). If you... I will explain. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya means there is a logic of accepting half of the chicken---the chicken or what is called, cock, that?

Haṁsadūta: Oh, the rooster, hens.

Prabhupāda: Hens, rooster, rooster. No, the female is called hen?

Haṁsadūta: Hen.

Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that “This mouthpiece is expensive, because I have to give to eat. Better cut it.” So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole—-this side and that side—hen business will go on.

Pater Emmanuel: (German with devotees) In the Christian tradition... (German)

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Water. The first commandment is, “Thou shall not kill.” But they are killing. The first point is disobedient. Then where is love of God?

Pater Emmanuel: (German) It is in the relation of man. “Don’t kill,” it says ..., the Christianity understands...

Prabhupāda: Why they understand like that? That means that Lord Christ was not sufficiently educated to use the right word, “murder”? Does it mean so? There are two words, “killing” and “murder.”Murder is especially meant for the human being. So do you think that Christ was not learned enough to use the word “murder” instead of “killing”? “Killing” means any kind of killing, especially animal killing. Otherwise you should have frankly, openly used the word, “Thou shall not murder.”Even if it is meant like that, so does it mean that he was preaching amongst the murderers? They are very first-class men? They are all murderers? Therefore the injunction. This kind of interpretation does not appeal to us.

Pater Emmanuel: (German)

German devotee: He said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this commandment, “Thou shall not kill,” is found in the Old Testament, and when Jesus was talking ...

Prabhupāda: I do not know many testament, but I see in the Ten Commandments these words are there. If you want to support it by many testaments, that is, of course, your business, but we take the direct meaning, “Thou shall not kill,” the Christians should not kill. Interpretation you can give in your own way to support your business, but we see openly. If we can understand openly, there is no need of interpretation.

Pater Emmanuel: (German) No, I understand.

Prabhupāda: Why should we interpret? Interpretation is required when the things are not clear. Here it is clear—“Thou shall not kill,” plainly advised. Why should we interpret?

Pater Emmanuel: (German)

German devotee: (translating) To eat plants, is it not killing? To eat vegetables, is it not killing? Plants?

Prabhupāda: Then vegetable killing and animal killing is the same?

Pater Emmanuel: It’s not the same. Not the same. But human killing and animal killing is also not the same.

Prabhupāda: So we are not killing. Our Vaiṣṇava philosophy, we do not kill even vegetable, because our Krishna says ... (aside:) Find out this verse. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (Bg. 9.26).

German devotee: Should I read this in Sanskrit, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi bhakty-upahṛtam.

German devotee: (reads translation in German)

Prabhupāda: So we offer Krishna. Krishna wants, “Give Me this foodstuff,” so we offer the foodstuff to Krishna, and we take it. Therefore, if for killing this patraṁ puṣpam there is sin, that is Krishna’s sin, not my sin. But Krishna, God, apāpa-viddham: sinful reaction cannot take place to Him. Apāpa-viddham. Pāpa means sinful. Just like the sun is powerful. It can absorb urine. But you cannot drink urine. So the injunction is, tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful ... Just like a king. He orders, “Kill this man. Murder.” He commits murder regularly, chopped up. But he is not under the law, being hanged, because he is very powerful. But an ordinary man, if he commits murder, he will be hanged. When there is fight, the commander-in-chief says, “You kill them,” and the soldier kills and he gets gold medal. But the same soldier, when he kills a single person at home, he is hanged. Therefore this injunction, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (Bg. 9.26), “This vegetables give Me. I shall eat, and you take the prasādam.” So we are not sinful.

Pater Emmanuel: And Krishna cannot give the same permission for the animals?

Prabhupāda: Heh?

Pater Emmanuel: Krishna cannot give the same permission for the animals?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the animal kingdom, in the nature’s way ...  Just like the grass is the food of the cow, and the cow is the food for man, but not for civilized man, religious man. The crude man. (break) (indistinct) The perfect human being is described—śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam. (aside:) Find out.(break)  ... killing of animals and child, Christ’s name. Then it will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but to request you that your Christian religion prohibit this and encourages chanting of name of the Lord. So you kindly do it, that’s all.

Pater Emmanuel: Thank you. Prabhupāda: Hare Krishna. We are also chanting “Christ” or “Krishna,” the same thing. So let us join to together and chant. If you have got objection to chant “Krishna,” you chant “Christ” or  “Christo.”Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ (Śikṣāṣṭaka 2). He says that God has got many, multi names. Any one of them you chant, because each and every name has the same potency as God the person, because His name and He, there is no difference.

And if we become designatedless---if we give up these titles, “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian," and simply chant God’s name---then we become on the spiritual platform immediately, without any discrimination that "Here is Hindu,” “Here is Muslim,” ”Here is Christian,”“Here is white,” “Here is black,” that. We are preaching that human form of life is meant for God realization, or to learn how to love God. That is real business of human being. So either do it as a Christian or as a Muslim or as a Hindu, it doesn’t matter. But do this business.

Pater Emmanuel: I agree.

Prabhupāda: And we are practically doing that. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna---this is our business. We always keep the chanting beads, just like you are keeping. Yes. Chant, that’s all. Everyone should do. Where is the harm? If everyone takes this chanting... You are Christian; you have taken. Why not other Christians? They also can take. Chant. There is no loss. By chanting there is no loss, but there is good gain, so why should we miss this opportunity of chanting? The cats and dogs, they cannot chant. But we have got human tongue; we can chant. There is no loss, but there is great gain. Now, these young boys, they are always chanting. It is only practice. It is training. These young boys and girls, they could go and act so many things frivolously, but now they have given up everything. They don’t eat meat, egg, fish; no intoxication up to drinking tea or smoking; no gambling; no illicit sex; and chanting. (pause) If you can cooperate, then we go to the church and chant, “Christ, Christ, Christo, Christo, Christo,”or “Christo, Christo.” Is there any objection?

Pater Emmanuel: No. Prabhupāda: Then we should be allowed. Instead of keeping the churches locked up...

Pater Emmanuel: On my part, but I...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking with you. You are a representative of Christian kind. So instead of keeping the churches locked up, why not give it us? We shall chant twenty-four hours. (priest laughs) Actually, this is fact. Many places we have purchased churches. And before our purchasing, the church was practically locked up. Nobody was going. And because nobody was going, therefore it was available for purchase. In London I have seen, hundreds and thousands of churches are locked up, or they are being used for different purpose. There are many hundreds and thousand churches, but they are not going on. So this experience... In Los Angeles we purchased one church. So it was sold because people were not coming. Now you go to the same church, and the same men, they are coming by thousands. And one Christian priest in Boston, he issued one leaflet that "These boys are our boys. Before accepting this movement, they were never coming to the church. They never inquired about God. And now they are mad after God. How it has happened?" Yesterday the inquiry was, “Why the Americans and the Germans are taking to this path?”

Haṁsadūta: “How come it has expanded so quickly?”

Pater Emmanuel: What was your answer to this?

Prabhupāda: Answer? What the answer?

Umāpati: Prabhupāda didn’t understand, accepting him in German.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The answer I gave, you do not remember?

Umāpati: "Because they are intelligent."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any intelligent man will understand what is religion, what is God, in five minutes. It doesn’t require even five hours. In five minutes.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I understand.

Prabhupāda: But we do not want to understand. That is the difficulty. Yes?

German guest: (German) German devotee: He believes that to understand God is not a question of intelligence, but it is a question of humility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. “The humble and meek shall go to the kingdom of God.” Is it not? It is Bible statement?

Haṁsadūta: “The humble and meek shall inherit the earth.”

Prabhupāda: So nowadays the rascal philosophy has spread that everyone is God, and therefore nobody is humble and meek. If everyone thinks that he is God, then why he should be humble and meek? So they are being educated how to become humble and meek. In the temple, to God, or to the spiritual master, the God’s representative, they offer always respect by offering obeisances. That is humble and meek. They are doing very easily progress, you see, only on account of this humbleness and meekness. Even on the road if they see me, they immediately fall down flat, never mind there is dust. This very qualification is pushing them towards spiritual realization. In the Vedic scripture (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad  6.23) it is said,

yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau
tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

Yasya... “Anyone who has got unflinching faith in God and His representative, the spiritual master, to him only, the purport of the scriptures become revealed.

Full transcript and audio here:here: https://prabhupadavani.org/transcriptions/740622r1ger/